Thursday, March 03, 2016

John and Patsy Ramsey

Words fail me.


Martin Roberts said...

Patsy Ramsey @ 1:54

"It's my belief that whoever READ the ransom note probably had something to do with her murder"

Martin Roberts said...

John Ramsey @20:45

"The empirical information supports that (i.e. his) belief totally"

Well, it wouldn't be my first experience of someone reading a graph upside down!

Anonymous said...

Himself said...

MR 3 March 2016 at 13:08

Well spotted Sir, I missed that little Freudian.

I still can't get over the handwriting denial.

And I thought the McCanns had brass neck.

Martin Roberts said...

Himself @19:18

"I still can't get over the handwriting denial."

It certainly takes some believing. Despite her detractors (and I cannot say I'm a fan) Cristobell's drawing attention to the parallels 'twixt this case and the McCanns is more than reasonable.

"I think once you accept that Patsy was the author of the ransom note, the intruder theory is busted."

I have much the same belief as regards Kate McCann's efforts at photography (see exchanges in 'comments')

Anonymous said...

It's interesting to read the synopses of David Mills' documentaries on the case. I haven't seen any of the productions, but they do appear strangely familiar (in outline).

For example: "The third documentary in the trilogy – transmitted in the UK in 2004 - exposes the astonishing incompetence of the original police investigation into the killing of JonBenét."

I wonder if Mills would recognise his own writing.


Martin Roberts said...

Agnos 3.3 @20:08

Yet another intriguing pointer.

There seems to my (suspicious) mind at least, something deliberately mischievous in the insistence of certain media types that police investigators are invariably about as bright as an unlit candle.

Coincidentally, only last night I watched a TV drama documentary which gave the lie to that supposition. I notice also that the copyright date attaching to the Mills Website ( 2007. Mmm?

Thanks and regards


Anonymous said...

Martin Roberts

Very interesting. Insightful and informative exchange.

Martin Roberts @19:42

“I have much the same belief as regards Kate McCann's efforts at photography (see exchanges in 'comments')”


Himself said...

Bonjour kiddywinks

I have been having a mooch round the web trying to find the credits for various documentaries. Irrespective of that, I did drop on a couple of bits.

Martin (Glossary, tongue in cheek)Amusing in places.

Chaplins = A British-type bar and restaurant in Praia da Luz, specialising in fish 'n chips, bangers & mash, and a Tuesday night Quiz; popular with the Tapas 9

Martin/Agnos There's a lot of it about.

Jon Corner: A funny guy


I shall tweet this presently, but I am putting it here as reference to virtually all the jemmied shutters, whoosing curtains quotes.

Anonymous said...

Mr @13.08 I believe Mrs Ramsey says Wrote instead of READ imo.

Himself said...

5 March 2016 at 13:39


Maybe not a Freudian slip then, perhaps more brass-neck than anything else.

But given the ransom note could be described as a carbon copy of Patsy's handwriting, it was one helluva statement to make.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @13:39
Yes, you're right, she says "wrote". Americanese.

Himself said...

Anonymous 3 March 2016 at 16:36

If true there is some pretty damning stuff writ there.

The knife bad enough, but the nightgown clinging to the blanket, and the location of said blanket prior to wrapping it JonBenet, well it takes your breath away.

As does everything else, not least Patsy wearing the previous day's clothes and makeup.

* "Only Patsy could have put that knife there. I took it away from Burke (JonBenet's older brother) and hid it in a linen closet near JonBenet's bedroom. An intruder never would have found it. Patsy would have found it getting out clean sheets."

* The blanket wrapped around JonBenet's body had been left in the dryer. There was still a Barbie Doll nightgown clinging to the blanket, so it had to have come out of the dryer recently, she said. Only Patsy would have known it was in the dryer, she said.

Anonymous said...

"Brass neck" is right! Thanks for posting the video I'd never seen it before but have showed it to some friends and then the "ask the dogs Sandra" video also linking them to the 48 questions and they've all gone away gobsmacked ��

Himself said...

Try this one, but please don't advertise it widely. It is not my compilation but one I captured when it first appeared. I upped it to youtube and it ran quite successfully for a good while, but eventually received a take down notice from TED because it was an adulteration of the original.

You might capture it yourself if you have the facility to do so.

Himself said...

Here's another, different compiler.

Tells - Body Language

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Magic "law stay away" candles - lol

Martin Roberts said...

Anonymous @09:53

"Magic 'law stay away' candles" eh?

Anything like this one:

And is this the dude on a brief visit to the UK or a case of mistaken identity?

Anonymous said...


As Pedro Silva (slayer of scums) would say "Your words are mine".


Anonymous said...

You might like to read JonBenet Ramsey a different perspective There is evidence that the parents were not involved, unlike the McCanns. Denying her own handwriting is odd though.

Martin Roberts said...

Anonymous @11:27

"Denying her own handwriting is odd though."

Almost as odd as demanding a ransom exactly equivalent to John Ramsey's Christmas bonus!

Martin Roberts said...

M @10:46

Do we ever get to see the joo joo doll (Sorry, 'cuddlecat') in close-up? We might notice the pin holes if so.

Himself said...

Anonymous 7 March 2016 at 09:53

For a moment I thought it might have been this bugger.

Nigerians hey, what are they like?

And of course you can borrow my bank account.

Himself said...

MR 7 March 2016 at 11:48

No pins, how about a direct assault? A bit of meaningful nonsense.

First Punch and Judy show

Anonymous said...

7 March 2016 at 11:27

I haven't believed the Ramsey's personally killed their child for a long while, but just like the Grand Jury I believe the Ramsey's "did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."

Also like the Grand Jury I believe the Ramsey's did "unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."

Translation: We believe the Ramsey's sold their child for sex, a dangerous situation which resulted in her death. Because of their culpability, the Ramsey's then covered up the felonious murder by staging a fake abduction.

You can see where people might get the idea there are parallels between this case and the McCann case.


Anonymous said...

There are lots of odd things pointing to the parent's guilt but equally odd things that point to someone else. I just cannot imagine a parent that "accidentally" killed their child would then strangle her so tight, and jab at her private parts to make it look like a sex crime.

Anonymous said...

Anon @14:33 "There are lots of odd things pointing to the parent's guilt but equally odd things that point to someone else"

Please track down the testimony of Nancy Krebs. It is...enlightening, to say the least. Really, her testimony explains EVERYTHING. [and may even be instructive in the McCann case]


Anonymous said...

April 10, 2000

"The detective, Steve Thomas, who resigned from the police department in mid-1998, writes that he concluded that Mrs. Ramsey strangled her daughter in a panic on Christmas night 1996 after accidentally causing a serious wound to the little girl's head. He also contends that the girl's father, John Ramsey, after realizing what had happened, "chose to protect his wife" rather than help the authorities determine what had happened.

By outlining his theory in "JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" (St. Martin's Press), which is scheduled to be released to the public on Tuesday, Mr. Thomas has become the first person with direct knowledge of the investigation to publicly accuse Mrs. Ramsey of killing her daughter. He also says he concluded that Mr. Ramsey played no role in the girl's death."


"...Here, Thomas raises these and many other provocative questions:

How was the investigation botched from the beginning and why did police so carelessly allow the crime scene to be tampered with?

Why were John and Patsy Ramsey protected from early questioning and any lie-detector tests, even though their stories and behavior were erratic, suspicious and inconsistent?

Why was crucial evidence ignored, why were certain key witnesses unquestioned by detectives, and why were the Ramseys privy to sensitive information about the case and even police reports?"


Interesting. M

Anonymous said...

"Steve Thomas, who resigned from the police department in mid-1998, writes that he concluded that Mrs. Ramsey strangled her daughter in a panic on Christmas night 1996 after accidentally causing a serious wound to the little girl's head."

1. It's important to note that Steve Thomas became bosom buddies with Fleet White Jr. who was with John Ramsey when the body of JBR was found in the basement. To understand the significance, please read the testimony of Nancy Krebs.

2. Dr. Cyril Wecht is QUITE adamant that the strangling occurred first. Why? Because the minuscule amount of blood--a mere teaspoon-- associated with the MASSIVE head wound is proof the child was dead or near death when the blow to the head occurred. In Wecht's opinion, JBR was killed in a 'sex game gone wrong'.

3. A mother enraged over toilet issues does not explain the findings of 'chronic sexual abuse' reached by several noted clinical experts.

In August, the Boulder police department contacted Dr. John McCann, one of the nation’s leading experts on child sexual abuse. McCann had agreed to assist the police department in determining if JonBenet had been a victim of sexual abuse during or before her murder. McCann was sent the autopsy report and photos. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.
There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim...
Dr. McCann explained the term "chronic abuse" meant only that it was "repeated", but that the number of incidents could not be determined. In the case of JonBenet, the doctor could only say that there was evidence of “prior abuse". The examination results were evidence that there was at least one prior penetration of the vagina through the hymeneal membrane. The change in the hymeneal structure is due to healing from a prior penetration. However, it was not possible to determine the number of incidents nor over what period of time. Because the prior injury had healed, any other incidents of abuse probably were more than 10 days prior...


Anonymous said...


The following is in regard to the "chronic inflammation" being related to urination issues:

"In September 1997, the police department held a meeting with McCann and three other child sexual abuse experts to go over their opinions based on their review of the autopsy results. Dr. Virginia Rau of Dade County, Florida stated that she observed fresh hymeneal trauma on JonBenet and chronic inflammation that was not related to any urination issues. Dr. Rau said,“In my heart, this is chronic abuse,” but feared that a defense argument would be made that this was only evidence of masturbation.
Also agreeing with the findings of both McCann and Rau was Dr. Jim Monteleone of St. Louis. Dr. Richard Krugman, Dean of the University of Colorado Medical School, an expert first contacted for assistance in the Ramsey case by the D.A.’s office, was the most adamant supporter of the finding of chronic sexual abuse...
All of the experts agreed that there was no way any of the recent or chronic abuse damage to the genitalia of the child was the result of masturbation."


Himself said...


Interesting stuff, thank you.

Anonymous said...

Collateral damage from the candle'd campaign?

Himself said...

Collateral damage from the candle'd campaign?

Forgive me, I'm lost.